Safety of Large, Outdoor Gatherings

  • Safety of Large, Outdoor Gatherings

    Posted by JIm Stolzenfeld on June 8, 2024 at 11:35 am EDT

    Hi, everyone. I’ve long understood COVID19 to be infectious outdoors as well as inside, although inside is of course much higher risk.

    With that said, we have two large (50-100 people each) outdoor social events (nephew’s graduation party and 60+ year annual Family Picnic) coming up that will be very hard to skip. (We’ve stayed home from the annual Family Picnic last 4 years, and that’s really getting to wife as it’s one of the only times she can see her extended family every year).

    I’m incredibly concerned about the risk of becoming infected with COVID from one of these two events. We’ve worn good (N95, KN95) Respirators since pretty much Feb 2020 anytime we’re around other people. But at this point are literally the ONLY two people in our circle of friends and family to do so – and people are starting to look at us like we’re from Pluto anytime we show up in our respirators – especially at an outdoor event.

    We use ENOVID before and after events, and are currently taking 500 mg Quercetin, 2 doses of 500 mg Vitamin C, and 50 mg Zinc every day. We also have K12 lozenges that we’ll start taking week of event, and will also use CPC Mouthwash before & after.

    I’ve also ordered Ivermectin from TN (at the .2 mg / kilo prophylactic dose for both of us), but it has not shipped yet so doubt I will have it available for the first event next weekend.

    Even with all those precautions, I’m HUGELY freaking out about being around that number of people – even outside. Because all it would take is an infectious (symptomatic or asymptomatic) person to exhale near us or the wind to carry viral particles right into our path, and our 4+ years of being COVID free are quite probably going to come to an end.

    We have health conditions (me – Asthma/COPD, wife – Heart Disease & high BP) and age comorbidities (both in our 60s) that put us at high risk of severe outcomes from COVID. Even a tiny little minor cold has sent me to my Pulminologist and many times darn near hospitalized me. COVID for that reason has TERRIFIED me for 4+ years, and we have been “ultra” careful in reducing our risk of exposure.

    Would be interested in hearing other’s opinions as to whether we should:

    – Just skip the events (again, as in past years)
    – Go, and wear our Respirators (and have people think we’re complete lunatics – and probably laugh uproariously at us behind our backs or after we’ve left)
    – Roll the dice and pray the ENOVID, supplements and CPC are enough to keep us protected

    Sometimes I feel like I’m one of if not the only one in my network of family & friends who understands the real risks of infection from COVID19..we have family members that travel all over the world, multiple flights, multiple countries, that go weekly to crowded events, eat out every week, attend concerts..and they never (at least admit) that they have COVID.

    Long COVID is a huge concern to me. Because of our co-morbidities/risk factors, I’ve studied this &^&*%^@ virus extensively, and not only know what it can do in even the most “mild” of cases, but have seen some pretty high profile examples (like Diana Cowern, @thephysicsgirl – check out her story on Twitter/X if you haven’t heard of her) of it totally wrecking people – to the point they can do little else beside lay in bed all day.

    Appreciate any and all suggestions on how we should approach this and any tips to minimize this overwhelming & debilitating anxiety that occurs every time we’re faced with one of these “really shouldn’t miss” events..

    Sometimes I wish I didn’t know what I DO know about COVID. Sigh..

    Karen_flccc replied 1 week, 2 days ago 4 Members · 4 Replies
  • 4 Replies
  • vegandan

    Member
    June 8, 2024 at 12:52 pm EDT

    With what you have described, it is perfectly understandable for your concerns about the insult to your health from the possibilities of attending this family event. You have taken a lot of precautions to avoid Covid and stay as safe as possible from getting infected. That being said, there is a distinct possibility that you are in fact already infected with the spike protein and your body may have already handled the impact in the form of mild symptoms or possibly none at all. SC2 is pretty much endemic throughout the world. It is most likely similar to many other viruses like the cold and flu. If you otherwise have a healthy and robust immune system and/or have been using a good regimen of antiviral therapeutics, then your body is probably going to handle the SC2 fairly well.

    That being said it would probably be wise to continue with the precautions you have described and not worry about what anyone else thinks about what you are doing to protect yourselves at this event. I would still consider going to the event because I doubt that the risk of community gatherings is not going to go away anytime soon. So if you don’t want to be living in a bubble for the rest of your life, this is the new normal and you need to adapt by taking the precautions that you are taking.

    One additional item I would consider for your prophylaxis is to add high dose Vitamin D as soon as possible. People with high levels of Vit D in their blood did not die or have serious complications from SC2. I would consider 5000iu twice daily through your events in order to get your D level up fast and help provide protection. After the event you can get your D level checked and see if you are around 80ng/ml or more and adjust your dosage accordingly.

    Although you have health concerns, statistically you are probably pretty safe and your risk of infection is most likely pretty low. And with all your precautions and preparations I would think you should just concentrate on having a good time with your friends and family. My opinion only and not a medical pro so grain of salt.

    • JIm Stolzenfeld

      Member
      June 8, 2024 at 3:29 pm EDT

      Thanks for the reply.

      Am pretty confident we have not been exposed to COVID, as we don’t go ANYWHERE without our respirators – and go very, very few places period. We have not: eaten in a restaurant, been on any kind of transit (including planes, trains, busses, cabs, etc), gone to church (YouTube church instead), been to a large gathering indoors or out (including skipping all major holidays and the annual family picnic the last 4 years). So, our risk of exposure has been 1/10,000th most other people.

      We do supplement with Vitamin D. (Roughly 2,500/day).

      Also forgot to mention that we are both immune compromised. That aside, I can probably point to hundreds of examples of younger, by all appearances totally healthy people who thought their immune system would protect them from what was until only recently a Biosafety Level 4 virus (only one level below Ebola). Immune systems do not protect from something like COVID, and the examples of that being the case are everywhere.

      @physicsgirl was on the Forbes “30 under 30” list (so obviously pretty young) and outwardly looks healthy as one can be. Got married. Went on her honeymoon. Got COVID, which turned into Long COVID. Has spent the last 18 months (I believe) in bed, unable to do pretty much ANYTHING. Can’t even read or listen to music. Even talking is reportedly very difficult / exhausting for her. That’s all documented on her Twitter/X page by her husband (as she’s unable to post anything herself).

      Another example – Singer Linda Rondstadt. Lost BOTH her hearing and her ability to speak (let alone sing) after her 2nd COVID infection. Has since regained her voice, but they currently think the odds are high that she will be deaf for the rest of her life.

      There’s reportedly a 10-15% chance of developing Long COVID even after one’s first infection. That jumps to ~25% on second infection, and 40+% on the third. Even if those infections all outwardly appear “mild”. There’s substantial research (including some by the renowned Dr. Peter McCullough, which is summarized in a whitepaper he co-authored) on the internal damage COVID can do to..just about every single major body system. Many people are totally unaware of this, sadly.

      Having the health issues we do, I’ve studied this virus several hours a day for the past 4 years, reading everything I can get my hands on. Because of that deep level of research, I know what it can do to people including @physicsgirl and the 20 million plus people that are reported to have “some” degree of Long COVID. So, hence the reason for my anxiety. I don’t want to be among those 20+ million people who wrecks the rest of my life with some lifelong health condition or total debilitation.

      Net net, I take the virus very, very seriously – because I know what it can do (and has done in tens of millions of cases) to people..yet, if I skip these events – it’s going to frustrate both wife and me. If we go, and get COVID, I have absolutely zero confidence our “immune system” (even if they weren’t already compromised) would protect us from what’s the deadliest, most damaging virus of any of our lifetimes.

  • mad-dog-melvin

    Member
    June 8, 2024 at 6:44 pm EDT

    You are not alone in your concern. And based on everything you have said have every right to be so. It is not inconceivable to have gone for 4 years without being infected with Covid. I have not had it either, and I am still wearing a N95 mask when I shop at 7:00am (when the store opens and I’m one of two customers).

    Several things I might suggest:

    1. If you do go to the celebrations and you catch it, key will be early treatment so you need to have on hand ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, nitazoxanide, etc. You might want to see if you can get a rush COVID emergency kit (one for each of you) from the Wellness Company. This is Dr. Peter McCullough’s group. I can get you a number for customer service if you like.

    2. Start drinking green tea before you go, while you are there and when you come back. The EGCG in green tea stops spike going into your cells. Or get green tea extract capsules from Amazon. I’m sure they can deliver in time. Dose is 500-1000mg daily. Reliable brands are: Life Extensions, Designs for Health or Thorne

    3. I have found that the best nasal spray to stop covid from making its way into your nasal membranes is povidone iodine dilute solution. FLCCC has a side bar in their Covid prevention documents that tells you how to make it and use it.

    4. I would be concerned about shedding of people at these outings. It is real and there is an excellent presentation on the topic in the FLCCC 2024 conference. A Midwestern Doctor’s substack blog has also covered the subject in detail. I was invited to an outing right after the last batch of boosters was being encouraged. My docs said I should not go because the incidence of shedding was greater right after a round of the boosters occurred. I did not go to the outing.

    5. Lastly, as my doctors have said to me many times it’s about risk verses reward. If you expose yourselves, will it be worth the risk? I wanted to have an eye procedure done and they cautioned me and told me about several of their patients who had very low SARS CoV-2 antibody tests for spike ( under 1000), went into the hospital for cataract surgery and were retested and their results were over 22,000.

  • Karen_flccc

    Organizer
    June 10, 2024 at 9:50 am EDT

    When I’m at large events where I’m concerned about transmission, I usually do IVM 0.2mg/kg the day before, that day and the day after. If I don’t have IVM on hand, I take black seed oil instead. I also increase my vitamin D and take zinc & quercitin during that time. Immediately after returning from the event I do nasal spray and gargle. Usually just listerine & Xlear, but if I’m particularly concerned I’ll do the 1% povidone iodine gargle/nasal spray.

    I’ve attended conferences and funerals indoors with hundreds of people and no mask and have yet to catch Covid (blood tested several times — no antibodies). Same with flying – no mask. Anywhere there is good airflow like being outside, I don’t have any concern anymore.

    At this point, Covid is ubiquitous — it’s everywhere and will be forever — mutating and changing but it’s part of the landscape. For me (I’m 65), I’ve chosen to use all the tools & knowledge provided by the FLCCC and medical freedom doctors to keep myself as safe as possible, but to also live my life.

    If you decide you want to attend and not wear masks, I would suggest that you test drive it a bit at small local events — maybe a farmer’s market that isn’t too crowded. Or a walk in the park. Somewhere you might normally wear a mask but isn’t super crowded. Do the prevention routine you feel the most comfortable with and go out just to get used to how it feels. For me, I noticed when I first went back to my local farmer’s market without a mask, it took me a few times to feel comfortable again.

    You have the tools — you know more than the majority of people. Hoping you are able to go and have a great time at your family events!

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